Enneagram - Leadership: An Interview with Bart Wendell, Ph.D.

When Bart Wendell – a seasoned business consultant, meeting facilitator, and Senior Member of the Enneagram in Business Network – told me he was writing a leadership-meeting-Enneagram book, I could hardly wait for its arrival. Hot Leaders; Cool Facilitators: Learning to Lead One Meeting at a Time is a great book, so I decided to interview Bart about it for my blog. Here it is!

Question: With so many leadership books available and your very busy consulting schedule, what made you decide to take time to write this book?

Bart: Meetings are fascinating, ripe with great possibilities! But I became continually frustrated watching potentially great leaders display such a lack of competence that they actually sucked energy from meetings, even though this is not their intention. Just like parents who get no preparation for parenting; so leaders get no preparation for leading meetings.

My intention was to fill the middle ground between books on meeting management and books that focus on theories of organizational leadership and describe what great organizational leadership actually looks like in a meeting.

Question: This is a leadership book; why include the Enneagram?
Bart: I wasn’t going to include the Enneagram originally, though I do love the Enneagram and find it immensely helpful. But then I realized that leadership is about bringing the right focus to the right things at the right time. And it is hard to do this consistently and persistently. To accomplish this, leaders have to have access to all energies: the Head, Heart, and Gut. They also have to take the temperatures of these three energies, and this is much harder to do without the Enneagram. With the Enneagram, leaders can more easily tap into their Head, Hearts, and Guts.

Gut Energy

The Gut energy is hot. Hot energy drives for results. It says, “Let’s go. Everybody in the truck! I’m driving!” However, this kind of energy doesn’t pay attention to bumps in the road or worry about a possible cliff ahead, but it does get you someplace different from where you started.

Head Energy

The Head energy is cool. It provides perspective, checking in on progress and dates. Cool energy asks if this is the right truck for the right road, and do we have the right products in the back of the truck? Of course, in the meanwhile the products are becoming stale and out of date, but the thoughtful analysis continues.

Heart Energy

The Heart energy is warm. It provides vision, commitment, and asks questions like these: What do we really want and what can we truly commit to? Essentially, Heart energy is about caring. Using only the Head (cool) and Gut (hot) without the Heart (warm) is half-hearted thinking and action. Hot and cool energies are voracious momentum seekers; with hot and cool leaders, the more they get, the more they want. And warm energy is ephemeral; it comes and goes quickly, is sensitive to temperature, and can get overshadowed.

Question: What, in your opinion, makes a great leader?
Bart: Hot, cool, and warm! That’s it. Leadership is about motivating people to wish to do the right thing more than once, helping access energy and motivation they didn’t know they had. It’s about accessing and using these three energies: understanding (Head), acting (Gut) and caring (Heart)!

Question: Can you give 3 words of sage advice on leadership development?
Bart:

Honesty – knowing yourself and being honest with self

Focus – being mindful of where you are, being able to bring your energies in line with your intentions

Reading Others – being able to accurately sense other peoples’ temperatures, helping them recalibrate 

Question: If you had one main message to give leaders about leadership and about the Enneagram, what would that be?

Bart: It’s the hunt, not the capture, that’s important. What’s important about the Enneagram is trying to figure out what type you are yourself  – to be curious about yourself – which doesn’t happen when you find your type in two minutes.  Knowing your type is helpful because a whole window of learning opens up about yourself, but the process is always far more important than the destination.

Thanks, Bart! 

Bart Wendell, Ph.D. is a business consultant, psychologist, past Vice President of the International Enneagram Association, and author of Hot Leaders; Cool Facilitators: Learning to Lead One Meeting at a Time. bwendell@wendellleadership.com

Enneagram Theory: Soul Child; Maybe Not; Disowned Childlike Self; Perhaps

Introduction

In response to a guest blog written by Peter O’Hanrahan several months ago (Enneagram Typing: a guest blog by Peter O'Hanrahan), we received a comment that delighted me. I love the dialogue created, the blog-poster was very Enneagram-savvy, and I really like thinking about different perspectives on the same Enneagram topics. The writer refers to Sandra Maitri’s The Spiritual Dimensions of the Enneagram, one of my favorite Enneagram books, and I highly recommend it if you like her spiraling way of writing, which I do, but some have a hard time processing.

These are the issues raised from the initial blog, as I understand them:

1.    Is there such a thing as a “Soul Child” for each type, the type that we call the Heart Point (for 1s, it’s type 7; for 2s, it’s type 4; for 3s, its type 6 and so forth, going around the diagram in the counter-direction of the arrows)?

2.    If there is such a “Soul Child” at our Heart Point, – an unresolved, lower functioning part of a person’s essence that screams at us in the lower reaches of our psyche – then “integration” at the Heart Point (relationship point) isn’t about integrating the higher aspects of that type; it’s about integrating a deeply embedded, disowned, shadow part of ourselves.

3.    If both of the above are true, how do we do it?

The posted comment was in response to Peter writing this: “While I appreciate Sandra Maitri's notion that our true "soul child" is found at our heart point, and our personality type is some kind of compensatory structure, I have to disagree. I was born an Eight; I have the soul of an Eight; I come from a long line of Eights tracking back through Irish history to the Vikings.”

The poster wrote this: “I'd like to give credit where it's due - Heart Point is a term Naranjo used with the original SAT group, but he didn't say much about it.  Maitri is the only one who has written about it, but the understanding about the soul child originates with Almaas.

The traits of the heart point may or may not have been obvious as a child - it's not the expression of them that is important but the feeling that it's not OK to be that.  My father was an Eight and would probably say the same things you [Peter] said about yourself - born an eight, always was tough, etc.  But it's striking when I look at his childhood pictures.  Up to about 2 years old, he is a cherub, soft looking, curly blond locks, sweet open face.  At about 6-7, he looks like he's ready to kill someone.   I've seen this kind of thing over and over in people's baby pictures.” 

Context

Last summer in Germany, Claudio referred to the screaming angry Four-child that lurks behind every Two. He stopped there, but my thinking did not, which is probably part of his intention. I remembered Matiri’s “Soul Child” concept, but paid too little attention to it because I didn’t relate at all to “Soul Child.” Upon reflection, the issue was that – for me, at least – soul has a specific meaning that is aligned with dictionary definitions: “the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life; the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe.” Then I realized that the “Soul Child” name comes from a little-used definition of soul: someone’s emotional nature or essence.

Concept

From my perspective, the word “Soul Child” does a disservice to both the word soul and the concept that Claudio articulates, with no offense to either Maitri or Almaas. I really think the label ”Disowned Childlike Self” or something like it far more reflects the concept involved and helps us figure out what to do with this information. That said, I will try to give a brief-enough explanation of what might lurk behind each of us, depending on our Enneatype, followed by actions we can take. What to do with it will be the next blog!

Enneagram Ones: the Disowned Childlike Self of Enneagram 7

Beneath every self-controlled, self-contained One is a pleasure-seeking, unrestrained, and uncontrollable Seven who wants to grab everything he or she wants and has few, if any real boundaries. 

Enneagram Twos: the Disowned Childlike Self of Enneagram 4

Beneath every kind, generous, and other-directed Two is a screaming, angry, self-focused Four who tries every way possible to express his or her needs and desires.

Enneagram Threes: Disowned Childlike Self of Enneagram 6

Beneath every confident, self-assured, and forward moving Three is an anxious, doubtful, and insecure Six who doesn’t believe in him- or herself and doesn’t know what action to take.

Enneagram Fours: Disowned Childlike Self of Enneagram 1

Beneath every unconventional, unrestrained, and original Four is a conventional, self-controlled, and highly judgmental One who wants to control everything around him or her but can’t seem to get it right.

Enneagram Fives: Disowned Childlike Self of Enneagram 8

Beneath every self-contained, unassuming, and non-assertive Five is an unstoppable, highly territorial, and aggressive Eight who takes or possesses whatever he or she wants.

Enneagram Sixes: Disowned Childlike Self of Enneagram 9

Beneath every hyped-up, vigilant, and insightful Six is a relaxed, easy-going, unflappable Nine who is fundamentally “lazy” about paying clear and complete attention to what is occurring.

Enneagram Sevens: Disowned Childlike Self of Enneagram 5

Beneath every charming, engaged and engaging, and freedom-seeking Seven is a reticent, withdrawn, and restrained Five who doesn’t know how to break out of the box of limitations.

Enneagram Eights: Disowned Childlike Self of Enneagram 2

Beneath every big, bold, and powerful Eight is a sweet, needy, and vulnerable Two who cares too much about what others think and lacks an intrinsic sense of self-worth.

Enneagram Nines: Disowned Childlike Self of Enneagram 3

Beneath every humble, unassertive, and collaborative Nine is an ambitious, competitive, and confident Three who wants to both lead rather than follow and get recognition for his or her accomplishments.

All the above is reasoned speculation, but my experience with myself and others says there is definitely merit to this idea. I’m interested in what you think!

Stay tuned for the next blog on how to integrate our Disowned Childlike Self?

Enneagram Styles and Respect

This blog was inspired by Gayle Hardie’s insight about Respect. Gayle will be writing a new insight each month, to which I am adding how each of us, depending on our Enneagram style, has obstacles and opportunities to develop in this arena.

Gayle Hardie, a Senior Member of the Enneagram in Business Network, is based in Australia and is co-founder of the Global Leadership Foundation (along with her working partner Malcolm Lazenby), a company that provides training, consulting, and coaching services to organizations interested in transformation at all levels.

Respect

Respect is choosing not to stand in judgment of another. It is acknowledging others for who they are and what has brought them to this point in time, rather than focusing on what they have or have not done or what they feel or think.  It is sometimes incredibly difficult to see someone for who they truly are, particularly if their story and journey is difficult to accept or believe or is one that troubles you or has directly impacted your own well being.


Everyone deserves the opportunity to be “heard.” When we take the time to truly listen to others, we find that our own “internal dialogue” quiets, and we are better able to see what is driving or motivating the behaviors we are experiencing from the other person. From this comes greater understanding and compassion – two important markers of respect.


Ones
Obstacles to Respect: The judging mind, the closed-down heart, and the quickly reactive body responses
Opportunities for Respect: Opening the mind and heart to others with whom you disagree or who you do not perceive as living up to your standards; when you do this your behavior will show others the respect you want for yourself and that they deserve.


Twos
Obstacles to Respect: Lack of respect for oneself and the adherence to rules of interaction in which you expect others to behave in certain ways
Opportunities for Respect: Begin with self-respect, then move to respect for others who do not behave in ways aligned with how you believe others should act.


Threes
Obstacles to Respect: Believing that respect comes solely or primarily from what a person accomplishes or achieves and judging oneself and others on this basis
Opportunities for Respect: Go deeper into yourself regarding who you are in addition to what you do, then learn to respect yourself for who you are as a person; this will transfer to how you perceive others.


Fours
Obstacles to Respect: Self-blame, self-negation, and your tendency to absorb negative information about yourself
Opportunities for Respect: Recognize the positive qualities in yourself rather than focusing so much on what might be wrong with you; this will be more realistic and balanced in your self-assessment, your self-respect and respect for others will increase.


Fives
Obstacles to Respect: Focusing so much on knowledge and your perceived competence that you may miss other qualities in yourself and others that you can respect
Opportunities for Respect: Become more open to different people and ideas. Recognize that although shared values and intellectual competence of common points of view are a foundation for respect, you are limiting yourself if this is your primary or sole basis for respect.


Sixes
Obstacles to Respect: Concerns about others and second-guessing both other people and yourself
Opportunities for Respect: Learn to be open to people who behave and think very differently from yourself; it is possible to respect others who are not similar to you, even if you may not be entirely comfortable with them. These individuals might actually be more worthy of respect than those with whom you feel like-minded.


Sevens
Obstacles to Respect: Not listening fully to others and needing to be excited by them
Opportunities for Respect: Remember that everyone has a different pace and that yours is much faster – but not necessarily better – than other people’s. Listen to those whose energy level doesn’t excite you, but who have something important to offer.


Eights
Obstacles to Respect: Thinking you can rely on and trust your gut response to people in almost all cases and thinking that what you believe is the truth
Opportunities for Respect: Become more receptive to others and be willing to be open to people about whom you first have a non-positive response.


Nines
Obstacles to Respect: Confusing respectful interactions with true respect for others
Opportunities for Respect: Remember that just because you or someone else treats someone respectfully does not mean this reflects a deeper level of respect for another person.